Choc/Lilac Smoke Question

Whispurrpaws

Posts: 2150

« on: August 06, 2008, 11:45:19 AM »

I've read on CFA's website that both chocolate calico smoke and lilac calico smoke are accepted colors. But what about choc/lilac smokes, choc/lilac smoke bi-colors, chocolate tortie smoke and lilac-cream smoke? I didn't see any of these colors mentioned anywhere but I know they exsist. Are any of these colors currently accepted by CFA? If not, would they have to be registered as AOV (any other variety)? It just doesn't make much sense to me to accept the choc/lilac calico smokes but not choc/lilac bi-color & solid smokes. :? Ceylon, do you know the answer?


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Tracy J. Hopkins
Whispurrpaws Persians & Himalayans
Beauty, Health & Purrsonality Plus!!
A DNA PKD Negative Tested Cattery
http://www.whispurrpawscattery.info/

Ceylon

Posts: 1502

Choc/Lilac Smoke Question

« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2008, 12:59:30 PM »

Ahh yes.... that's a question nearly every cho/lilac breeder asks with time. I LOVE that Question and Love to share what I know about it.
I do know the answer.
I started this hobby about 10 years ago now with 1 purpose in mind. To grand CFA's 1st Chocolate Smoke Calico. In all my years it seems I've been fighting fate. I'll not give up!
Why do I want specifically to grand a Chocolate Smoke Calico?
Because in the visual smoke world only Chocolate & Lilac Smoke Calico's are accepted for Championship Status in CFA.

This because some years ago when the Calico Smoke Breeders gathered to write their proposal to CFA for the acceptance of Smoke Calico's for championship Status they included every genetic possibility. Dominate Smoke Calico's, Dilute Smoke Calico's, Chocolate Smoke Calico's and Lilac Smoke Calico's. Thank Goodness for their honesty and understanding of all genetic possibilities. This proposal was on line for many years but in my Guestimation was removed from the web approx. 5 years ago. I never thought of saving their work to share with the world back when it was available. I've been kicking myself every since.

So, the reason Chocolate & Lilac SMOKE Calico's can be shown is because they were combined in with the other smoke calico's for show.

The reason Chocolate Smokes, Chocolate Smoke Bi Colors, etc..... Can't be shown for Championship status is because CFA requires 10 different cats to be shown in AOV first. Now we know there are a few Visual Smokes out there. Sadly they haven't all been shown. In theory we should have this coloration accepted by now. (Reality is always different)

I'm not going to give up. If I have to create visual smokes and give them away to other breeders to help get them going for Championship Status in CFA then that's just what I'll have to do. This is far too long in the making in my humble opinion.

I've always encouraged the Cho/Lilac breeders out there to work on Smokes. After all... you want to create a Crisp Clean Chocolate or Brown Tabby Pattern..........? Using a Smoke or a Silver Tabby is the Answer!


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Whispurrpaws

Posts: 2150

Choc/Lilac Smoke Question

« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2008, 10:53:48 AM »

Ceylon, thanks for the great explanation. I wish you the best in attaining your goal of granding CFA's 1st chocolate calico smoke. That would be quite the accomplishment, but if anyone can do it, it will be you. I would love to add smokes to my breeding program in the future. That is why I was curious as to why the visual calico smokes are accepted while other visual smoke colors are not.


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Tracy J. Hopkins
Whispurrpaws Persians & Himalayans
Beauty, Health & Purrsonality Plus!!
A DNA PKD Negative Tested Cattery
http://www.whispurrpawscattery.info/

cleonjay

Posts: 5958

Choc/Lilac Smoke Question

« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2008, 11:08:56 AM »

lilac calico smoke! Sounds GORGEOUS!!!!!


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Purrs,
Jaycee, Maid Marianne, Darla, and Sugar Plum >^..^<

Ceylon

Posts: 1502

Choc/Lilac Smoke Question

« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2008, 11:12:41 AM »

Well thank you.

Now the purist Smoke Persian Breeders avoid using tabby in their smoke pedigrees. This is because tabby can often cause barring in the smoke pattern. Not in all cases but it's been a way of breeding for the purist smoke breeders out there.

I'm not objectionable against the use of tabby's in the smoke pedigrees. I do however suggest trying to avoid using silver shaded or chin in the pedigrees. This is because I have bred pedigrees with them in the pedigrees and it has always resulted in smaller persians for me. I can only speak for my results not everyone else.

You can also run into tarnishing of the coat color often in the smokes because of a history of tarnishing in the silver tabbys in some pedigrees.

I'd suggest going about breeding smoke visuals by finding a pure smoke out there in the pure persian world to bring into your lines. That's 1 way.

Or you could be more open minded and go about it my way of using silver tabbys with a chin/shaded history or a silver tabby with no chin/shaded history.

I've found it is possible to find smokes with no tabbys in their pedigrees but Very difficult to find. I eventually gave in because I wasn't making progress on my smoke program trying to be that strict.

I'd love to see you working on a visual smoke program for showing. If you come up with Q's along the way, please feel free to come to me.


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Whispurrpaws

Posts: 2150

Choc/Lilac Smoke Question

« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2008, 08:58:09 AM »

Thanks for the very helpful advice Ceylon. Regarding bringing in a pure smoke to my lines, would you suggest a solid smoke or a bi-color smoke? I'm partial to black smoke & black smoke bi-color as far as non-visuals go.

With any little luck I plan on keeping one or two visual or carrier females with the best overall type from this year's litters. The father of my 2008 litters is my black CPC choc & dilute carrier boy. So my question for you is this... which of the following options would be the best plan of action in your opinion?

Plan A... Bring in a pure smoke male, breed the visual/carrier girls to him to improve on type and try for a nice smoke choc. carrier female. Then take this smoke choc. carrier female to my chocolate bi-color boy to produce visual smokes.

OR

Plan B... Bring in a pure smoke female, breed her to my chocolate bi-color to produce a smoke choc. carrier female, then take her to my black choc. carrier boy to produce visual smokes.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.


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Tracy J. Hopkins
Whispurrpaws Persians & Himalayans
Beauty, Health & Purrsonality Plus!!
A DNA PKD Negative Tested Cattery
http://www.whispurrpawscattery.info/

Ceylon

Posts: 1502

Choc/Lilac Smoke Question

« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2008, 09:13:08 AM »

I'd say start with your own pedigrees. Send me the pedigrees to the cats your thinking of breeding and let me take a look at them. From there we can go shopping and make the best decisions.


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Lauradam Persians

Posts: 185

Choc/Lilac Smoke Question

« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2008, 04:04:42 PM »

I have just bought a smoke boy in to put with my chocolate/lilac girls


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http://Lauradampersians.piczo.com

Ceylon

Posts: 1502

Choc/Lilac Smoke Question

« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2008, 08:12:04 PM »

Excellent! Will you share his pic with us?


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Those who speak the loudest
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Lauradam Persians

Posts: 185

Choc/Lilac Smoke Question

« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2008, 02:09:29 AM »

His pic is on my website, he is just 6 months old.

Lynn


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http://Lauradampersians.piczo.com

Whispurrpaws

Posts: 2150

Choc/Lilac Smoke Question

« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2008, 10:01:55 AM »

Ceylon, Just sent you a pm.

Lynn, I'm off to your website to look at your smoke boy.


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Tracy J. Hopkins
Whispurrpaws Persians & Himalayans
Beauty, Health & Purrsonality Plus!!
A DNA PKD Negative Tested Cattery
http://www.whispurrpawscattery.info/

Ceylon

Posts: 1502

Choc/Lilac Smoke Question

« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2008, 04:59:58 AM »

I know I owe you. Since I've returned from the show, I've had my house and cats to get back in order and now the C-Section and kittens to nurse every other hour. I'm behind in going through your pedigrees to help you find a smoke for your program. Give me a few weeks please?


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Those who speak the loudest
about the faults of others are often lacking integrity themselves.

Whispurrpaws

Posts: 2150

Choc/Lilac Smoke Question

« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2008, 08:55:09 AM »

No problem whatsoever Ceylon... I know how busy you have been lately. Please take all the time you need.


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Tracy J. Hopkins
Whispurrpaws Persians & Himalayans
Beauty, Health & Purrsonality Plus!!
A DNA PKD Negative Tested Cattery
http://www.whispurrpawscattery.info/

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