Well, count me in. In a month, we are driving all the way out to Oregon to have Emily's nose done. That is going to be one very expensive nose job. *shakes head*

paolalew, I am so sorry that you are still having trouble with your beautiful Exotic. It is such a heart breaker to have lost a beloved fur-friend and then (with high hopes) you bring in another and he acts so...ornery.

Everybody here has given you wonderful advice and I don't have much to add. But, I have thought about your dilemma quite a bit. This is what I would try:

1. play calming music in his room (classical)
2. go in there and sit on the floor, talking calmly and quietly, but do not look him in the eye
3. read or knit, or do other things and just sit there at ground level
4. don't let him get away with being by himself and spend every moment you can with him
5. entice him with favorite foods, while you are sitting there close by
6. if he comes out, don't move, just be there
7. carry on with your life and just ignore him (unless you are sitting in his room)

I think they pick up when we are afraid of them and I would be a little nervous if one growled at me, too. I really think with patience and persistence, you will prevail. If you haven't already done so, call his breeder and tell her what is happening. Perhaps she/he has some insight into what is going on.

I have not been here as much as I should have so I am not sure if he is a rescue or a kitten you purchased.. Did they give you any information on him as to what his background was. ?
I agree he is not just afraid , he is terrified of something in his past. When he freezes , this is a way a cat acts out of total fear, I had a kitty called Bunny, anytime she was afraid, she would stick her head down and her butt up and not move. She would growl. She was a stray I lived trapped. Something dropped her off in our back yard pregnant , I was not able to save her kittens but I did save her.
If any animal is tramuatized they have a hard time getting over it. Even if they do, they usually will remain quiet and preferr thier own company. I was never able to truely socialize Bunny. Bear, my Tortie I rescued , from the dog lb at 9 weeks old had been deserted at our Zoo, and they found her living with the guneia pigs .. it took me along time to socialize her , but I did, she was always a loner, sat next to me not on me, in her later years she would sit on my lap
What did you vet, say, when he examined him, did he display anger, or fear. ? It is important to make sure he is not in pain, pain will cause a cat to react this way
Being he is terrified of almost everything at this time, it is important to keep him in a very small area. It sounds cruel but it is not, if you have a large dog crate, cage, set it up for him for a few weeks. Make it comfortable, soft blanket or sheep wool on the bottom, a small kitty tree, they look like a round tube, they can go inside or sit of top of it, food and water and a litter tray, some toys to play with and a stuff animal with your smell rubbed on it. If you can put this large dog crate in a room will you can visit him easily. Have a large blanket that will cover it, put him in it and cover the cage, leave it covered at least for 24 hours, leave a space where some light can go in, check on him, make sure he has food and water and his litter his clean . Do this for a few days. with only you taking care of him, when you care for him, talk in a calm voice, looking at him but never directly into his eyes. You do not want to challenge him. Then about the third day pull the blanket half off so he can go from the covered end to the open end. This will start to let him become familar with the surroundings. During one of your sessions when you are talking to him and feeding him, offer him a treat hold it out to him , then just set it down, and move your hand away, this way he knows you are not going to try to grab him, Do this for a while, then try to give him the treat , set it down and just touch him , but hot hold him, keep doing more each time. It takes time but it may work,
He does sound like he has been a stray a while at sometime and has started to revert to being feral, any cat can turn feral , it takes only a month or more for this to happen. If it has been stray for a short time or even a year, they can turn around.. sending prayers.

I'm sad that you and Mr. Willikers aren't snuggling and cuddling yet.

I've adopted some messed up cats in the past, and, while others have said he is traumatized, I really wouldn't use that word. (Truly traumatized cats in my definition will strike at you or pee themselves with fear.) Neglected and unsocialized, yes. More than that, maybe yes, maybe no.

You really can't go by the growling. Growling is just a way for a cat to tell you to back off -- it may be fear, it may be dominance, it may be habit. Growling does NOT mean he will attack you. Most cat growls are a bluff to have you back off. Heck, Isabel growls through being groomed and she actually LIKES to be groomed. Spencer will growl when I feed him cheese and I'm sure he doesn't want me to stop!

Now, the walking with tail down and back arched is a sign of fear. It really doesn't matter because the basic problem is one of trust and confidence. Before I go on, I remember you flew out to get him (I think?). If so, what was he like with the breeder you got him from? Was she handling him? Or was he already boxed up for you? Was he a show cat?

You mentioned he slinks around at night. I'm sorry, but I haven't followed all this, but he probably should be confined to one small room and not given the run of the house. If he did live in a cage most his life, space is terrifying. Robbie lived for 3-4 years in a bathroom before I got him and it took 6 months for him to feel confident to come out of our bathroom. Once Mr. W is accepting of your presence and somewhat of your touch, then he could be let out to explore the house. This may sound harsh or silly, but it's not.

Joan made a suggestion that does work. You need to pet him for even 10 seconds (longer is better) even if he is growling. There is a tone between 'please don't' growl and the 'one more and your hand is history' growl. The tenseness of his body and his pupils are other clues. You want to pet him through the 'please don't' growl right up to the 'one more and your hand is history' growl, so that he learns two things. First, being petting isn't hurting him. Second, he's not the boss (I do wonder if his hormonal changes are messing with his mind a bit).

Joan also said something else -- she asked his you can pick him up and cuddle him. Don't pick him up unless you have to! If he's already scared of contact, having his feet off the ground is terrifying. One cat years ago I got from someone and this cat was semi-feral -- it had been living in the garage for 1-2 years. If had also been hit/kicked/poked by the owner's children, which is one reason she gave him to me. We were doing well on the 'forced' petting until someone very stupid decided to pick him up -- he went bonkers! I have scars to show you. It also set back his trusting me a good month or more.

He can be turned around -- but it will take time and lots of love on your part.

I agree that he is not tramatized...but I do believe he is afraid. Finding out that is only a year old is what has me really confused. He was also shown with him even collecting grand points. He had to be handled to have this happen.

I do like the advice that Pat gave about confining him to a small area...this is actually a great idea! I know it sounds so bizzar but this is a boy that obviously lived in a cage...maybe he needs to feel that comfort by being caged again. He can have his own area and that will comfort him alot. PLUS he will NEED to depend on you! And yes...make sure it is ONLY you that is caring for him, changing his litter, food, water etc. He will learn to trust you.

Also, as Linda said...DO NOT try to pick him up. Pet him yes and don't push it with him. Just pet a few strokes, talk softly, and then stop. Slowly increase this over time. I bet he will come around alot better. He doesn't understand any of what has happened. He was in his breeder's home from birth and I am guess caged the entire time. Now he has all this free reign and is confused by it all.

I really like the advice from Linda and Pat for caging him up again....making sure only you care for him and try to pet him a little each day but increase it each time...even a couple seconds. It just might do the trick!!!

As hard as it maybe to do, I agree with the others - he needs to have his own safe secure little space until he learns to trust. I am not into breeder bashing, but this makes me mad. 'Nuff said.

If its any encouragement- there was an ex-breeding stud who was rescued by another breeder- another forum I was on
Totally feral/fearful to the point she thought he would never come around or trust.
Lots of time patience- several months or more.
She kept him in his own enclosure and went in each day and spent time with him.
She eventually rehomed him to a pet home- would have been at least a year later he now cuddles his new owner who adores him and is a totally different loving cat
It can- and I'm sure it will get much much better
Sounds like you are doing all you can

I feel the same way Lynda. I don't know this breeder and don't know her circumstances so I am like you and hate to point fingers here but it makes no sense to me that this baby is so young and so frightened. You and I both know that boys need to be confined away from our females but they should NEVER be forgotten! And I am afraid this kid didn't get much one on one attention when it was most critical. Breaks my heart!

I will look into getting him a cage. It is probably something I should have done when he got here!! I thought confining him in one room would be enough for the first few weeks. I just dont know if they flat out lie to me about his personality or if he is really overwhelmed... They say that he was occasionally caged but not all of the time, they said he was socialized since early age and had no issues with their dogs or cats. When they left him out of his cage he would sleep on their laps or chest, I dont know!!!! When we took him to the vet he was simply paralized in fear but he was not aggressive (not biting, scratching).
Now at night he loves to play in my sons room with his toys (when my son is asleep) ,loves the cords on the blinds and I have learned not to leave strawberries on the kitchen counter anymore because he would eat them! I need to be able to handle him and give him a good brush, he threw up a couple of hairballs yesterday

In most cases, you are right -- confining a cat to a small room for a few weeks is all that is needed. Very few cats need or want the comfort of a cage or carrier. Mr. W may be the exception.

I say 'may be' because you said he prowls around at night. This is good! It means he is not terrified (totally) of space -- just you. So, you need to get him used to you and food is the best method for this. Find something he loves -- treats, cheese, salmon, bonita flakes, even yogurt -- whatever he loves and then hand feed it. If that means sitting on the floor for 20 minutes with a chunk of salmon on your finger (or by your foot), then that's what you need to do. He needs to associate you with pleasure.

As for people lying about personalities, yes, they do especially where money and/or adoption is involved. I've dealt with a number of shelters and rescue groups over the years and very few of the cats act like they were described. Now, some of this is just the difference between a shelter/home and my house. (It's like the meek cat at the vet and the tiger cat at home.) Some of it, however, is "telling the person what they want to hear".

As for hairballs, hairballs happen.

A great cage for this purpose is the Midwest Cage. I use these for quarentine as they are easy to tear down and don't take up much room. I think for the purposes you are going to use this for...this would be great! After all this is only temporary. After he begins to get more used to you and you alone you can leave the cage up with the door open but keep him in a single room until you both feel confident about your relationship and then and only then allow him free reign to the house.

I have this cage set up in my bedroom for Cas...he doesn't live in the cage...it is just there as a safe place for him to go. He is terrified of the vacuum and will go to his cage when I am using it. His litter and food are in there for him as well. If in an emergency (weather for example)...I can lock him up so I know where he is.

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