Hello everyone,

Looking for feedback on a large dilemma!

Male Black Tom, carries colourpoint, chocolate and dilute

Female Tortie (Daughter of above) carries colourpoint (proven through breeding) unsure about choc or dilute although very likely I'm guessing!

Litter of 5 born:-

2 RED Toms

2 Colourpoint Toms (colour unsure but guessing red as no markings yet)

1 Tortie & White (Male !!!!! I think)

Ok so, the tortie & white is impossible. both carry colourpoint, the grandmother of the girl was red & white, however no patching gene in the males pedigree at all. Then theres the tortie male part!

Anyone explain any of this?

Male calicos and male torti's do happen from time to time. If you do in fact have a male tort it's not likely he'll be able to successfully reproduce. In the same breath I can say from time to time one does successfully reproduce. When he's older you can submit hair, buccal swab and blood samples to UC Davis to obtain a better understanding of him genetically. There's a few possibilities that can explain him. As he grows, please keep us updated with photos. He could be a chimera or a male tort.. He could have both male and female reproductive organs etc.... There's a lot that goes into it all. Best of luck with the little guy and his litter mates.

I know it is possible, but with no Bi or Tri colour genes present!!!!!! ?

Regarding the tortie & white (calico), are you 100% sure what you are seeing is white and not a very pale cream color?? I've seen many people mistakenly think they have a calico when they actually have a tortie.

Or is there any possibility she was accidentally bred by a bi-color male?

Do you have any pictures of the kitten in question?

100% sure tortie & white, rather than the blended pattern of a tortie.

Mystified! and thats before the question of sex!

Well, I'm stumped on this one then.

As you know, the white spotting gene responsible for bi-colors and calicos is dominant not recessive as the dilute, colorpoint and chocolate genes are. As it takes only one bi-color or calico parent cat in order to get kittens with white and neither parent is, this kitten is genetically impossible from the two parents given.

I would still like to see a photo of this kitten, if at all possible.

So there's absolutely NO possibility this female was bred by two different males??

100% sure that there is only 1 male involved. Equally sure it is her kitten! Will sort a photo out, typical non van markings, clearly patched and not blended colours.

Mystery or what !!!!

One of the colourpoints looks as if it will be seal or blue point, the other is still showing no colour hence my guess at red or cream point.

Mystery with a capital M!

OK sounds good... I will look forward to seeing a picture of your "mystery" kitten then.

Just a little note. The CFA breed standard states that torties can have patches of color or softly intermingled coloring. I mention this because awhile back a member thought she had a dilute calico or blue-cream & white. When I saw the picture of the kitten she was actually a blue-cream. She mistakenly took the pale patches of cream color for the white you would find on a bi-color or calico. I'm not implying this is the case with your kitten, but it certainly would explain things.

Here are a couple of examples of my calicos, or torties & white as you call them.





Now is this the same white you are seeing on your kitten?

Unfortunately, I have yet to have a tortie, either with patched or intermingled coloring. Perhaps another breeder can post a picture of one of their torties, preferably one that has patches of cream coloring in her coat.

I could just eat Skittles up with a spoon she is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GORGEOUS!!!!!!!!