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 Post subject: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:59 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:37 pm
Posts: 4
I have a beautiful orange 11 year old girl. I love her. I have had her since she was 8 weeks old. I am ready to kill her. She has always been a cat who pees. We thought it was just bathmats but it has gotten worse over the years. When she thinks we don't give her enough attenton or heaven for bid we change something in the house. Like move a chair she pees. She has destroyed 2 area rugs, 4 boot mats, a couch, a chair and has peed on our beds. My most recent discoveries are peeing on the kitchen floor at night if we don't give her treats and I just threw out the mat at the front door and noticed that the baseboard in so saturated we have to replace that. (how i didn't notice the smell i don't know). We have tried medication, locking her in "her" room when we go out, changing food, putting citrus oil on the furniture/rugs, changing litter daily or everyother day. NOTHING has helped. She is getting worse. It used to be only when we weren't home, but now its just when we are not looking. I don't want to get rid of her (who would take her) and I don't want to put her down, but this is not healthy for my kids and its expensive and it SMELLS!!!!! Any ideas out there. She has been to the vet and is perfectly healthy.

 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:50 am
Posts: 896
Location: British Columbia Canada
Hi, and welcome to the site! :flower:

I can certainly understand your frustration; a very distressing problem you have with your kitty. You are right that rehoming her is not feasible, since others would not assume this task.. and cetainly dont love her as you do.
Putting her down would break your heart, and be a cruel solution too, since she doesnt realize the problem she is creating for your home.

Its a tough problem for sure, but as they say there is" always" a reason to improper elmination behaviour.. the trick is to find out what is behind it.

Since you seem to have covered virtually all the possible solutions, I'm not sure what to suggest. Has the vet checked her over recently? If not, I'd bring her again for testing and assessment. She is 11.. and new things can crop up. Maybe a different med might be tried, or least some suggestions offered.

If its striclty a behavioural thing..have you tried the Feliway spray at all? This helps with some cats.
The citrus is a good option, though if there is even a slight trace of urine odour left..the cat will use the same place to urinate.

I wish you the best of luck in finding an answer to this stressful dilemma and really hope one can be found. :paw:
Please let us know how things are coming along, wont you?

Fran & the furries; Miranda, Basil and Zack

Who among us hasn't envied a cat's ability to ignore the cares of daily life and to relax completely?

 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:47 pm
Posts: 566
Unfortunately, cats just like people develop diseases that are age related and incontinence can be one of them. You say you have used medication? What kind and who advised this? What sort of exams did the vet do, did you take a pee sample in or did he take on? Have bladder stones been ruled out? How did you change her food, from wha to what and why? Who recommended this?
Does your cat have a space to herself where she can be alone when she wants to? At her age she may not be wanting to play or respond to human's wishes of cuddling at all times, she needs to have a quiet place to herself.
Have there been other changes in her surroundings, new people, stressing situations in the family? All of this can bring about a behavioural changes and it is certainly not her fault she is doing this, so I hope that you neither scold or punish her in any way.
Have you tried putting up a second litter box?

While I understand that this situation is hard to deal with, she is a senior person and a longtime member of your family.

If you feel you cannot keep her, there are non-kill shelters probably also in your area.


Life without cats is possible, but senseless. (Loriot)

 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:39 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:37 pm
Posts: 4
Thanks for the advice. I agree with the part about putting her down. We have tried the Feliway. No go. She is healthy. The issue she seems to have lately is she pees if you dont give her treats before we go to bed. And if we don't let her outside. She has always been an indoor cat and it is not safe for her outside with out us. We do let her out if we are out there. I have been reading up on Persian traits and they don't match my cat. She hates change. Hates other cats will tolerate dogs. Social only on her terms. In other words she is a snot. Always has been.

 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:42 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:37 pm
Posts: 4
Everything we have tried has been under vet supervision or suggestion. I am stumped and teary!

 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:16 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I am no expert, but my Bogart occasionally pees outside the box. At first it was thought to be an infection which was treated with an antibiotic. He is on an antibiotic nowadays for his colitis, so I feel I can rule out an infection to blame for the occasional (in my case, 2 or 3 times a year) misdeed. I have kept it under control by changing the material in the litter box. I noticed he preferred smoother surfaces, so I place newspaper on top of the nonclumping, unscented litter in his box. I have to remove the newspaper once soiled, but he has two boxes. His brother has normal litter boxes, but he never, ever uses them. If he succumbs to temptation and pees elsewhere -- the boot tray or a welcome mat or atop his brother's tunnel toy/bed, I remove the object and usually throw it away. He never goes into the bathroom unsupervised because he has peed in the bathtub, too. The vet found nothing wrong with his kidneys and advised me to see a veterinary behaviourist. Do you have one in your area?

Barbara from Montreal

Humphrey (L) and Bogart (R) with their personalities showing as they snooze

 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:01 am
Posts: 319
I have the same problem with Muffins who is only 5 years old. She has ruined our carpets. She has had urinary problems in the past but been treated...and she uses her pan all the time...I see her use it...but when we are not looking she pees other places all over the house. Getting rid of her is never even close to an option, that cat is the most important thing to me in the world besides my family! It can be so frustrating...these carpets are old anyways and need to be replaced so its not that HUGe of a deal I am just worried will she ever stop doing it. I know shes * now there are 2 other cats and a dog where she used to be an only cat. I try to give her a lot of attention but she has always been the kind of cat who likes to be on her own and she comes to you when she wants to. Whenever I see her I always talk to her and pet her. I dunno...I guess its just something that some cats do. :?


 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:20 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 91
Time for extreme action.

Here's my idea:
I'd get an extra large dog crate (for a 100lb dog), open metal cage type (not the plastic types that are mostly closed).
Make sure it's large enough to hold her water & food at one end and litter box at the other end.
Then get a large plastic mat that is cushiony (they sell them at Home Depot, Lowes and the like). The cushioned surface is necessary so she'll be comfortable. The closer it is in size to the crate tray the better.

Then put it in a room that's perfectly climate controlled and that gets a lot of family action - do not put it "out of the way". I think near the table where you guys eat would be great.

Then put the cat in there and only take her out when someone can hold her or can put her on a little halter and leash and play with her.
Feather teasers and lasers are good toys because most cats can't resist them.

Keep her in there for 3-4 months. Be disciplined and make sure she gets out at least 2 times a day for cuddles and/ or grooming and/or play.

After a long period of months slowly let her out and test her a little at a time. Go too fast and you'll ruin everything.

She may backslide anyway and you MAY have to keep her caged. As long as it's in the busiest part of the house and she gets out for supervised exercise it's better than the alternative. I disagree with people who believe it's better to euthanize than to cage.

 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:50 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:33 pm
Posts: 1019
Location: Watertown Ny
as Birget has said, she is considered a senior kitty now and they do incorporate a whole new set of problems.I realize how hard this type of behavior can be on everyone and your kitty. There is never a simple answer . First, I have to say, it will be a little harder to retrain her since, she has been doing it since she was a kitten, so, you , need to see it from her point of view, she does not see this as wrong. Cats donot do thinks to get even with us or punish us for giving someone or something more attention..
As they others have gave you such very good advice I will try not to repeat it.. except the vet is the first and foremost place to start. Even though she has been healthy it does not mean at 11 she has not started to develope some disease which making urinating more urgent for them such as diabetes, and hyperthyroidism.. you need to have a full blood panel ran to make sure.
You have said this has been a long time problem so it would be hard to decide why she began to choose not to use the litter box in the begining. So we would have to start from scratch.. and she would need to be retrained which takes time and efforts. As sad and harsh as it sounds she would need to be limited to where she can go in the house and when you are not home. Kept in one room or large dog crate in a room where she can see her home and has all the comforts she needs.. here are some tips from a good cat book.
Thinking outside the Litter Box, Margret a Bonham
Believe ,it or not your kitty prefers to use her litter box. Cats donot want to eliminate where they eat,sleep,or hang out:they are programmed to be fastidious in this area. If your kitty is urinating outside the box something is dreadfully wrong. Unfortunately your kitty cannot verbalize what his problem is. Litter Box Abandonment. Example.. Have you ever stopped at a gas station or somewhere to go potty, it smelled awful,it was dirty, you had to hold your breath and the toilet was not flushed and so full you cannot flush it,. now think how your cat feels is it sparkling clean or is smelly or and icky. Does your kitty have to avoid land mines or does she have a clean place to walk. What may smell ok to you she cannot tolerate, cleaning agents you use to clean the box,
Keep it Clean
some guide lines
one cat two litter trays
if standard litter tray change once a week
recyled newspaper litter once a week
scoopable once a month
natural once a month
crystal once a month
This is a rule of thumb and this is removing solids on a daily basis or more as neede. If they are heavy users change more often
Sensitive sniffers: cats have such a strong sense of smell some may positively be picky when it comes to thier litters. The smell of perfume,or added scents will probabley be highly offensive to them. use unscented..
Location: oddly enough your cat will stop using his litter box because she doesn't like where you have put it. It might be to hard to get to, if you have a two leve house have a tray on each level. cats do like privace, think how you would feel if your toliet was where you had to sit in front of every one. Once a cat likes where her litter box is , they do not want you to move it.
Difference shape and size, some like them short and deep, mine likes her long and low as she is a big girl, a kitten needs a very low flat one. Sorry, this is sensitve issure here but important, Declawed cats oftne have litter box problems due to pain and sensitive feet. use soft litter such as wheat or corn clummping
Try different kinds til you find the litter she like. my girl will not use only crystals.. she can hold her urine til her eyes fall out, when we do the urine test with the beebee balls she goes almost a whole day.
Innapporpriat elimnation health problems can invaribley cause a cat to "think outside the box" This is a biggie because, quite frankly, a cat who doesn't feel good is more likely not to make it to her litter box all the time or to blame her litter box for her condition. CAt logic is pretty simple when it comes t o pain,Avoid whatever is causing it. your cat is not thinking her body is causing her pain but something in her enviroment is, If it is constipation, urinary infection, blockage and it hurts to use her litter tray then in cat lanuage, HER TRAY IS PUTTING THE BITE ON HER AND SHE IS NOT GOING TO USE IT.
sorry this is long retraining your kitty.
once a cat has developed an aversion to her litter tray, it may be difficult for her to think about using it again. After all she has had no problem where she is going now. The first step in retraining process is to clean up any areas your kitty has been using to go potty. Throw out anything that you can throw out.As long as your cat can locate th odor in those locations she will continue to use them.
Use a good enzymatic cleaner, you can get at your vet, on line or at a pet store. you must remove every trace of odor. Then purchase a boundary type spray to spray these areas, you may have to use it on a daily basis for a while. it is a spray to discourage spraying or urinatiing.. or pooing. Use double sided sticky tape in these areas or velco tape, but just one side of the velcro, they do not like the feel of sticky tape or velcro.
Then since your kitty has been doing this a long time you need to keep her in one room for a while. Making sure you give her time with the family for a few hours at a time. Make sure her tray is in her room with her, and anytime you visit her take her to her littler and set her in it, when she jumps right back out set her back in a say go. They will learn. When she does go, pet her, hug her tell her what a good girl she is, give her a treat.. do this every time you go in the room./ never punish her for mistakes. she will think it it the litter box hurting her and cats do not understand punishment. they do understand when you speak stern say no and walk away..
Slowly give her access to the house, but like a kitten take her to the tray when you get up, afrter she eats, drinks or play... not easy but can be done.. good luck.. pat


cats eyes say it all

 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:25 pm
Posts: 1526
Location: Utah
I concur with what Pat said, the first place to start is the Vet. I don't know when her last visit was or what tests but that is where you need to start. A urinary infection can happen quickly, my vet does a cystocentesis to be sure what is going on. You don't mention what type of litter box you use or where it is. Some cats won't use a covered one, or one that is in "the wrong Place. Is the box where the kids or others don't bother her so she feels safe. Stress will often be the cause of this type behavior. I had a cat that did this for 16 years, been there and done that. We finally made an area in the house, downstairs family room that was vinyl flooring, with coved edges, and this is where she spent her time when she wasn't with us. She still went outside the box but we could clean easier. Tile grout abosorbs so that is not good. She has been doing this her whole life so at this point it is more a matter or making life good for her and you. It wouldn't be fair to confine her completely, if it is stress related this will just make it worse. The Feliway may be a good idea also. She can't have free run of the house sadly but you need to head to the Vet as it sounds like something is making it worse and she is an old lady now. Good luck.



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